AOD-9604 and a trial that did not find what people say it found

Started 27 July 2025 · 20 replies · 192 hearts · read 4k times

BunnyWeston-super-Mare, UK · 27 July 2025

12 months ago

AOD-9604 and a trial that did not find what people say it found Writing it down partly to work out what I actually think.

Putting this here because I do not want to be sold anything, I want to know what is actually established.

I have a practical question that turns entirely on a technical detail, and I have not been able to get a straight answer to the technical detail.

I would like to compare how two different measurements answer two different questions, because I have been treating them as interchangeable.

I am asking because two people I trust have told me opposite things and both of them cited the same study.

I have said 9604 in the title rather than "several", because "several" is what I said last time and it got me nowhere.

Thanks. I would genuinely rather be told nobody knows than be given a confident answer.

MorayElgin, UK

I would say be very careful with anything where the entire published record is animal work. That is a starting point, not a finding.

SunilFacilitatorBirmingham, UK

Holding a boundary: nothing on this site is a recommendation to source anything, and buying outside a prescription carries a risk this community cannot remove.

FabianBasel, CH

Something worth knowing: a compound being widely discussed tells you about the discussion rather than about the compound.

7me too 4

AbramAmsterdam, NL

I found that separating the mechanism claims from the outcome claims made the whole subject much easier to think about.

TacitaRome, IT

Holding this with you rather than answering it.

IdrisCardiff, UK

Coming back to what Abram wrote further up, because it is the bit I keep thinking about.

My position is that I read about these with interest and I do not take them, and I want that to be a legitimate position in this circle.

NevGrimsby, UK

Tacita, thank you for that. It gives me somewhere to start from.

What helped me was asking, for each compound, what the best single piece of human evidence actually is. Often the answer is very little.

IvorLlanelli, UK

Something I have noticed is that the confidence of the discussion is usually inversely proportional to the amount of evidence.

6me too 9

TamarPlymouth, UK

The reading group format works well for this. We took one compound, found everything published, and concluded it was thinner than the discussion suggested.

MableBolton, UK

#10

The honest answer to most questions in this circle is that nobody has run the study that would answer them.

PolaGdańsk, PL

#11

What I would flag is that the safety data is the part that is thinnest, and it is the part that matters most.

TobinCork, IE

#12

Nothing in this circle is medical advice and none of us is in a position to tell you what is safe for you.

WellsChester, UK

#13

My honest experience is that the more I read here, the more conservative I have become about the whole category.

BunnyWeston-super-Mare, UK

#14

Pola has already said most of this and I want to add the one part that was different for me.

Something that helped was somebody here distinguishing between compounds with a real clinical programme and compounds without one.

MorayElgin, UK

#15

The dosing discussion in most places online is derived from animal work by arithmetic, and that arithmetic does not do what people think it does.

FlossieShrewsbury, UK

#16

Thank you for writing this down. It helped.

FabianBasel, CH

#17

Bunny — yes, and the bit that took me longest to accept was the next part.

I would say if you cannot find a published human study, that is itself the finding rather than a gap to fill with reasoning.

AbramAmsterdam, NL

#18

What surprised me was how much of what circulates traces back to a single small study repeated in a hundred summaries.

11me too 5

SunilFacilitatorBirmingham, UK

#19

I am leaving this open because the reading group will come back to this paper in the autumn and I would like the discussion in one place.

IdrisCardiff, UK

#20

My approach now is to ask what would have to be true for a claim to hold, and then to look for whether anybody has checked.